6 - Apex Dec 7 phone meeting
The church office phone number is 937-432-9022. Please ask for Jason Wing or extension 202 when you call.
Gary Palmer 937-238-5065 firstname.lastname@example.org (first person I talked to - Sept 11, 2009) Dermatologist medical doctor
Rennes Bowers 937-409-6432 (2nd person I talked to - Sept 18 briefly) Dayton Firefighter
full time staff for house churches. Gary says "contact Jason if you wish to visit Apex"
- ---Rich's suggestions----
- HC Elder must be skilled at m2m and must be discipling/training each of his HC leaders weekly (by phone or in person) for 2 - 4 years.
- Agree with
- They say give to the needs of your HC before you give to the church?
- Start up slower so that all shepherds are given a heart to multiply. First Tim leads HC not with elders(?) but just 100% of future shepherds.
- No shepherds are just given a house church without first being trained.
- Key principle, if you don't multiply then your HC will die
- Do ROS on the commands in the New Testament starting with Matthew
- They come up with "I Will" statement. Then next week talk about it.
- Man to Man
- Have guys praying and seeking for "one man" to disciple and "one man" to win to Christ.
- HC has outreach "party" once a month.
- Don't be concerned about more and more house churches. Rather focus on more and more disciples. Then the HC will follow.
- ??For a new HC require that there are 2 shepherds (shepherd and co-shepherd) with goal of co-shepherd starting his own.
- Best to have the pastoral gift as opposed to teaching
- ----HC Definition----
- Intensity: Spend significantly more time together, meet weekly, always eat meals together. some do quads together. Have whole families together.
- Mindset: They know this is church where they are to care for one another. Not a small group where they don't have the responsibility
- Responsibility: Leader has much more responsibility: Not just facilitate a once a week meeting BUT to shepherd everyone and to raise up new leaders for multiplication. Leader has much greater "felt needs" and will therefore grow much faster.
- Much more shepherding occurs because:
- It's part of his job description (he is called an shepherd, not a facilator or small group leader)
- Only way he will be able to multiply his HC is by going a very good job of shepherding
- ??It’s often much more like “Family Thanksgiving” than “Small Group Bible Study.”??
- DNA How to measure ( DNA dynamic word, nurturing relationships, Apostolic mission.)?
If we don't care about evangelizing and winning the lost and spreading the Kingdom of God we're just Christian country clubs and he hopes they die out.
----Dec 9 conference call----
Bob discipled Tim Stevenson
How would you now recommend churches to roll out HC?
What is your plan for training new leaders?
What is your plan for the groups to be more missional?
- They really care about one another and intentionally sacrificially help meet one another's needs?
- Are they ROSing every day, are their lives changing and are they sharing?
Rob Turner said discipling does not occur in HC and quads. What are your thoughts on that? What is more important?
What are your multiplication goals for the HC?
How many people do you think attend one of the Apex gatherings at least once a month? How many people do you think attend a house church at least once a month? Why do you think there is a big gap after 3 years?
- Do you have the term disciple defined? In the Church multiplication seminar "Don't be concerned about more, more churches. Rather focus on more and more disciples. Then the HC will follow."
- Definition of disciple?
- How do you train the shepherds to disciple
Tim: may be we should be going to another community by another method.
APEX is hybrid and that is attractive to Tim
2002 Southern Baptist plant 150-200 college students
2005 had 2,000 people were coming but with no discipleship. ??Can you do discipling just one on one.
1200 set auditorium
Membership now requires being a committed member of a house church
still part of southern baptist
Sometimes they use other churches facilities for their hc to meet
Distinguishing marks of HC
They don't have small groups except for youth.
Each region has freedom to start men's group.
Each region has a group of elders
Potential Elders can volunteer or be recommended
Tried small groups and mens group but they stunk at it
Trained 13 leaders after the first HC
Over time shut down everything except youth and high school
Elders and teaching pastor did a good job
HC were more filling the void than replacing a lot of ministries
They are OK with someone starting their own group. But if it's announced it has to be supported by one regional elders group
13 elders within 5 regions ( 2 or 3 per region), plus team oversee missions, team oversee facilitators. There are some that overlap, but now they are trying to get the elders do just one so they are not spread out
They have 75 hc. Goal is to have one elder for every three HC. HC needs guidance BUT they will not fill slots if God has not brought them.
Network elders oversee everything (doctrine). 1 elder from each region, mission team, administration team. Each represents the interest of their group.
Whole point in going to Lodi is we have 300 people coming here. Let's plant something where
Apex primarily sees people coming to gathering first (cultural reason). BUT this last year HC is becoming more missional. Seen an increase in people first inviting their friends to HC.
Berge 2010.com Sponsoring a conversion, Francis Chan, Neil Cole,
Up to each church for what curriculum they go over
How do you get people to actually come to the training conferences
Each region has regular meetings for their HC shepherds 70% come.
Also do centralized training 30% come. Every 2 months.
Elders also get together one on one with the HC shepherd
Concerning Rob Turner comment "discipling does not occur in HC". What he meant was that the most effective discipling occurs the smaller the group gets.
2,700 no kids + 500 kids 1,650 people in HC. 500 students come from local Christian college
They are creating new leadership development.
Looking for each network to eventually start their own local gathering because people may not come if it's further than 30 minutes. They are 45 minutes away.
Pushing all pastoral cares out to the regions, including weddings.
They use to get calls to the central office for financial needs. Now the calls are down.
They say give to the needs of your HC before you give to the church.
They (HC) start their own bank account not affiliated with the main church. But not tax deductible.
3 g gather growing going.
People primarily give to Apex,
From the govt viewpoint they are one church
How do you determine healthy of discipling. What tool/measuring stick are you using. Is all about being and making disciples. What is a disciple? Intro to Apex . Knowing, loving, and obeying Jesus. How are you getting to know Jesus, obeying Jesus.
One measuring area. DNA dynamic word, nurturing relationships, Apostolic mission. Are they holding each other in accountable relationships? Are they out in mission?
Each HC is in stages. If they are mostly missional, then they need dynamic word and nurturing relationships.
People hammer them on what discipling
This Christian life we are pursuing does take time and a real sacrifice if you are going to disciple.
Probably leaning away from Satellite churches.
There is nothing as difficult as success.
- Do Eph 4 to equip the saints. Train new HC and youth leaders. Our big problem is our HC is SO full AND people don't want to lead without training.
- You can gain a lot of training just by being in HC.
- Each region has one HC just for building HC leaders and releasing them.
- BUT these people will go to both HC for a year.
- The preparation HC will meet every other week.
3. Making disciplesChrist's last command to His disciples was to make disciples of all nations. I believe the essence of cell ministry is making disciples who make disciples. Cells are leader breeders and the best place to prepare disciple-makers. Multiplication is at the heart of cell ministry because new cells provide the environment for making new disciples.
I often highlight large, growing cell churches or church planting movements. But such examples shouldn't be our principle reasons for doing cell church. The best reason is because cell church promotes key theological concepts and brings glory to the living God. Joel Comiskey
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